Back in the field

"AestheticsInMotion" (aestheticsinmotion)
11/12/2018 at 16:13 • Filed to: None

Nice change of pace. I generally go out in person to any job our crews turn down due to difficulty. They’re good, but... Nowhere near the level of the guys at my last business. They give up too easily, and lack creativity.

This particular j ob? Clean out the gutters and whiten the exterior with bleach. They walked away because they couldn’t figure out a way to reach the second level gutters on the home. We have spiked shoes specifically for wood shingles, but yeah they’re still sketchy on steep shingles, especially i n pouring rain.

But... don’t just give up!!! You’ve got a large van full of tools.... There should be no situation where you can’t devise a way to get a job done. This attitude has been a huge problem the last month. So many jobs walked from. I really don’t get it. The crews earn commission, so if they don’t do the job, they make nothing.

As a manager I don’t get the commission (grumble) , but if I was the crew leader on the job and actually did it rather than walk away, I would have made $400 for myself in three hours. Who walks away from that?!

I’m both irritated , and happy I got th e chance to do some manual labor.

DISCUSSION (24)

Party-vi > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 16:14

Curious - what do you use for fall protection once you’re on a roof like that?

AestheticsInMotion > Party-vi
11/12/2018 at 16:21

In general? Harness in on all roofs is company policy , and we install tie-off’s when they’re not already on a roof . We also have GOATS, chicken ladders, parapet harnesses, hitch mounted tie-off setups, and a near-endless supply of other systems to keep everyone save.

For the top image, I just climbed up the ladder, stepped on the roof and braced against the top of the ladder with my calves while holding onto the roof. Do as I say, not as I do, or something.

slipperysallylikespenguins > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 16:22

As someone who works at height, no job is worth getting injured over. I can’t count how many times I’ve dealt with overzealous supervisors who care more about the job than their coworkers. All it takes is one injury leading to one lawsuit to kill a company.

Party-vi > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 16:24

The tie-offs is what i was wondering about. I’m just being nosy.

AestheticsInMotion > slipperysallylikespenguins
11/12/2018 at 16:26

Agreed, but there's inherent risk in any job involving heights as you know. If you walked away from all of them the company would be just as dead. We take safety very seriously, but a job like the one above? Very low level difficulty. I don't think it's a safety issue, I think it's a problem-solving issue.

fintail > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 16:46

Looks like they used up their shake shingle budget on the front. I guess this is the PNW equivalent of a brick front.

Sovande > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 16:48

It's funny to see the front of that place compared to the back. Money side and the ran-out-of money side.

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 16:50

As a manager, I understand the conundrum. On the one hand, I’m frustrated when an employee doesn’t want to do a job that could be figured out with some effort and mind power. On the other hand, I don’t really want that employee doing something they don’t understand and messing it up. The answer for me is to get someone who knows what they are doing or has the initiative to at least say, “I don’t know how to do this correctly; can you train me, and I’ll do it?”

Those people are harder to come by than you would thing amongst a group with college educations.

The Dummy Gummy > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 17:00

That house is amazing.

AestheticsInMotion > Sovande
11/12/2018 at 17:13

That's a good observation. Now I'll be checking for that at every house I see

Sovande > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 17:17

I see it a lot in construction projects. The ritzy front facade and the cheap back side. I get it on big projects as it can save a lot of money, but I wouldn't want my house to be like that.

Nom De Plume > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 17:31

What sort of plum jobs were they passing this up to go do?

At the risk of agreeing with a very one-sided opinion. This appears to have gotten done.

slipperysallylikespenguins > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 17:47

Good help in the field can be very hard to find. The workers who easily pick up skills, think critically, and have ambition do not last long in the field as they either move into leadership or leave for better opportunities. So you get stuck with the rest.

Also keep in mind as that you even referred to it as “sketchy.” “Sketchy” to an experienced hand can be terrifying to the inexperienced. Those conditions lead to hurrying, unfocused work, leading to poor quality. And while every job is technically possible, on the rare occasion the steps to make it safe are not financially or timely viable.

Textured Soy Protein > Sovande
11/12/2018 at 17:53

The front and side s of all the townhouses in my neighborhood are brick. The backs are siding. But the streets are laid out in such a way that it’s very easy to see the backs with the siding.

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein
11/12/2018 at 18:00

It’s very typical in large scale building projects. Your development was probably all built at same time. I would bet the original plans had brick facades on the front and back and then the back facades were value engineered to vinyl during the bid process.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > AestheticsInMotion
11/12/2018 at 18:09

And now you know EXACTLY why they walk away. You’ve incentivized them to do that.

If they take an extra 4 hours to figure out a solution, that’s at least one other commission they lose out on. So of COURSE they walk away from anything that requires special effort. They’re basically losing out on money if they don’t. And you’ve made it clear that if they do walk away, it doesn’t matter, because somebody will do the job anyway .

They aren’t stupid. If you want to fix this, you need to actually give them an incentive and reason to deal with the difficult jobs. Higher commission, guaranteed set of easy-money jobs (e.g. “do 1 hard job, we’ll guarantee you 4 easy jobs,”) better safety equipment (seriously, expecting them to risk their lives for commission, just no,) get creative.

Just don’t be the idiot that decides “if you say no then we fire you” is an incentive.

AestheticsInMotion > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks
11/12/2018 at 23:32

I don’t know why they walk away. I’ve been in their position—a laborer during busy season—and I would be embarrassed to turn down a job. I don’t want to let down the people I work with, our the customers expecting a service.

I checked scheduling. They left the above job— which would have been a $400 commission for each guy at roughly 3 hours of work— and went to a job that earned them a $125 commission per guy for 5 hours of work. So it’s not money-related . They were absolutely incentivized to finish the job.

These are skilled workers, and they have the absolute best safety gear in the industry. I think they’re just not used to this much work, and are nearing the breaking point. This company works its employees much “lighter” than any other company I’ve worked with, and as a result they’re not used to working over 40 hours a week.

I should add, the above job is not what I would call difficult. I came up with a solution to the single challenging section within 30 seconds. I’ve got more experience than they do , but even so.

I don’t know. I just needed to rant. I’ve been on all sides , laborer, management, c ompany owner... I’ve been lucky to work with many amazing bosses, and quite a few amazing employees.

Commission-based pay seems to cause more problems than it solves in my experience (for this industry), but that's something I don't have the authority to change.

AestheticsInMotion > slipperysallylikespenguins
11/12/2018 at 23:37

Yep. I’m finding more and more that I was extremely lucky in finding such fantastic e mployees in my window washing company. I wish I still had connections at a high school to get graduating seniors.

True, but these guys aren’t inexperienced. They’re expected to be able to handle just about anything, and solve problems that arise. Normally that’s exactly what they do. For reasons I don’t understand, there have been a slew of walk aways this past month, and so far I’ve done every single one by myself with zero issue. I just don’t get it.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > AestheticsInMotion
11/13/2018 at 02:32

Do you clean/demoss roofs as well?

AestheticsInMotion > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
11/13/2018 at 13:44

Si. Besides Christmas light season, roof cleaning is our biggest business

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > AestheticsInMotion
11/13/2018 at 15:56

doooo you install gutters?

AestheticsInMotion > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
11/13/2018 at 16:01

Mmm case by case basis. We do a ton of s mall fixes, and occasionally larger replacement sections. For the money though I’d go with a gutter company or do it myself. It’s not really economical to have us do a large gutter install unless you’re spending $5k+ on a large multi-service job

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > AestheticsInMotion
11/13/2018 at 17:26

Well this job might be that big... I don’t know as I’ve gotten no quotes but I need the roof cleaned, gutters installed, one existing gutter cleaned, all the siding washed/hosed (aluminum). It is a roof that I will never step on and do any DIY, ever.

AestheticsInMotion > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
11/14/2018 at 00:09

I know we take care of aluminum siding/roofs , but I personally have yet to see i t done at this company so I’m leary of having it done for someone I know, if that makes sense.

I can certainly send out a guy to give an itemized quote. At the very least it could help give you a baseline price to work with. We’re on the expensive to very expensive side, so anyone charging more should give off some very good worker vibes. Shoot me an email sometime if you’d like. Here’s my kinja burner

karma2250@yahoo.com